>nessie no longer joins us here
Because he has the honor and integrity not to dialog with racists and their supporters.To have perverted the word "racist" as it has, nessie is a Nazi, no doubt in my mind. As it had said itself, anything in the least pro Israel would be deleted.
I didn't post that
by nessie
Wednesday July 07, 2004 at 11:08 AM
nessie@sfbg.com
It's a forgery.
For more about killing cats, click here:
http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2004/06/1696078_comment.php
I'm my own Zionist trick
by nessie
Wednesday July 07, 2004 at 02:36 PM
nessie@sfbg.com
both sides of my neck
by nessie •
Wednesday July 07, 2004 at 09:23 PM
nessie@sfbg.com
what's peurile
by me
Monday July 05, 2004 at 11:58 PM
is the fact a supposed adult has its panties in a
wad over a pseudonym. Keep erasing, nessie. Show everyone you don't
have any balls. Show the world you think a pseudonym makes or breaks
you. Educate us all. Start today.
"panties . . . balls"
by pointer
Tuesday July 06, 2004 at 04:23 AM
See:
http://sfbay.indymedia.org/news/2004/06/1686416_comment.php#1686836
(snip)
Use of sexual terminology as insults
(snip)
* * *
and:
http://thunderbay.indymedia.org/news/2004/05/14031_comment.php#14753
(snip)
>bitch . . . tits . . . faggot . . .
(snip)
2.) You went all over the IMC network portraying me as an
anti-Semite and you expect me to NOT to "moan" or "complain" or
"fuss"!?! What are you, stupid? You’re lucky you’re such a chickensh*t *sshole
as to say that stuff from the safety of the internet. If you ever
worked up enough spine to say it to my face I’d put your sorry *ss in traction in a New York minute, you vile, despicable scum.
See:
http://sfbay.indymedia.org/news/2004/06/1686416_comment.php#1686836
(snip)
Use of sexual terminology as insults
(snip)
See also,
by pointer
Wednesday July 07, 2004 at 04:09 PM
this:
http://pittsburgh.indymedia.org/news/2004/05/14010_comment.php#14699
and this:
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem-tu-quoque.html
question for nessie/pointer
by nessie the violent
Wednesday July 07, 2004 at 04:21 PM
Does nessie ever attack with ad hominems? Just wondering.
(1.) To use the word “bitch” in any other
context that the description of a female canine, is offensive. It’s is
also indicative of the kind of person you are.
You're an incredible fool. The phrase "to bitch" has been around
for umpteen years. Are you trying to redefine that for your own ends as
well, just as you try to redefine the word "racist", you impeccable
idiot?
(2.) You went all over the IMC network portraying me as an
anti-Semite and you expect me to NOT to "moan" or "complain" or
"fuss"!?! What are you, stupid? You’re lucky you’re such a chickensh*t
*sshole as to say that stuff from the safety of the internet. If you
ever worked up enough spine to say it to my face I’d put your sorry *ss
in traction in a New York minute, you vile, despicable scum.
You don't have the balls to do anything but lick the cock of
Arafat or bin Laden, you Appeasing little child. You've never been
nothing but a mouth, and have been consistently and without fail been
brutally knocked off your little perch every time you get on it. You're
a banty rooster, and when you're not crowing you're pecking the corn
out of shit. And ever since the attacks of September the 11th, you have
been in total fear of the Arabs, and have turned Nazi in order to
Appease them, and the IMC suffers for it..
Gutless and nutless and terrified out of your skull and
mentally ill. There's so much an Appeasing bastard like you has to
offer the IMC, right?
Expected different from an avowed liar?
by Critical Thinker
Wednesday July 07, 2004 at 04:33 PM
In response to evil nessie's claims:
you people here in Utah may be surprised nessie is denying his protracted spamming, but I can assure you he has spammed multiple copies of a few messages on Indybay and Van-IMC. Perhaps he expects you not to believe he has spammed on the account that he's an editor, as if being an editor somehow offsets the offense of spamming. Furthermore, the spam that slanders him is more often than not in response to his own spam.
When this sorry excuse for an editor and a journalist slanders me, he expects you to not consider it as an attack on Indymedia and every participant. Surprise. And who will defend Indymedia from evil nessie's attacks?
What I earlier said of evil nessie's "contribution" to discussions where Zionist or Israeli or Palestinian pertinent issues pop up encompasses *every* facet, not only Israeli transgressions and excesses.
He's also lying. There are quite a few non-Zionists and even anti-Zionists with whom I and other defenders or supporters of certain Israeli policies and actions have held serious and honest conversations. In contrast, evil nessie perpetually makes a point of trolling and harassing in the most puerile and childish manners. The Indybay editors must remove at least a few comments from the relevant threads on a nearly daily basis due to evil nessie's puerile behavior. And don't forget he must be between 55 and 60 years old as far as I can gather.
Evil nessie's portrayal of Israel above really demonstrates to what extent he's biased and full of shit. It would be very hard to make him admit that the belligerent religious elements (for example) in Palestinian society are rabidly racist, apartheid spirited and "Crusader-colonialist".
He has repeated quite many times an exhortation to kill all Nazis, yet he has refused to include Palestinazis like Hamas in that category. Why? 'Cause they're struggling against "the Zionists". Now you see.
I blame the IMC software for my mistakes
by nessie the violent
Wednesday July 07, 2004 at 04:46 PM
From Pittsburgh: "*sshole" is not sexual terminology
by the REAL nessie
Thursday July 08, 2004 at 02:01 AM
for the same reason "hand" is not sexual terminology. it's not gender specific. Everybody has one.
As for "I'm my own Zionist trick," etc.
If he really expects you to believe I posted any of that, he must think you're an idiot.
But don't take it personally. You have plenty of company. There are
people all over this planet who he must think are <a href=" http://makeashorterlink.com/?A1A721BB8">idiots.
"idiots"
by nessie
Thursday July 08, 2004 at 02:13 AM
Sorry about that. My bad. I forgot that the software here couldn't deal with that tag.
I recommend that the site switch over to SF Active. It's *much* better software.
Check it out:
http://sf.indymedia.org
to Critical Thinker
by nessie's nightmare
Wednesday July 07, 2004 at 04:58 PM
What you and others at the Urbana link have written is true. I can vouch firsthand about nessie posting "it's me" and "it's not me", because I've caught it a couple of times. But, as you have all stated, it ignores the evidence when confronted.
And you have certainly been right about how it redefines "racist", and you can plainly see how it has redefined "asshole" to suit it's whims. Anyone else using an epithet brings nessie to post to some strange thread about homophobia and misogeny, blah blah. An ad hominem is not a rebuttal until nessie feels like using an ad hominem as a rebuttal.
One more thing - you all have been erudite and well spoken about nessie, using damning facts and logic in enviable fashion. As for myself, I just shoot straight. nessie is incredibly mentally ill, and I dare say it needs to be locked away. I find it surreal that a Nazi controls the IMC of one of the most visible cities in the USA, perhaps the world.
"My bad."
by the REAL nessie
Wednesday July 07, 2004 at 04:59 PM
Yeah, right. You wish.
even more violent
by it's nightmare
Wednesday July 07, 2004 at 05:07 PM
"nessie gets violent"
by nessie Thursday July 08, 2004 at 02:43 AM
That's not violence. That's pixels on a screen. You want violence? Come to my house. You can have all the violence you want.
And more.
any time, bad ass
by your nightmare Thursday July 08, 2004 at 03:01 AM
Give me the street number of the dumpster, and I'll be there.
Sasha,
by Critical Thinker
Wednesday July 07, 2004 at 05:11 PM
I happen to be in no position to specifically answer your question concerning whether the general public has come to consider Indymedia activists as a whole as Nazis.
What troubles me (and many other Jewish users) personally is the tolerance Indymedia editors display toward anti-Semitic propaganda featuring on their sites. That kind of racism is much more tolerated than other forms of bigotry, most notably the anti-Arab variety, at least on Indybay and SF-IMC (though evil nessie wouldn't admit it. But know that he has aided and abetted a statement by one of his Court Jews that Zionist Jews (or the Zionists) killed Jesus Christ. He generally censors only the rather blatant anti-Semitic expressions.).
Whil I believe no type of racism should be tolerated on IMCs, I'm afraid that any attempts to convince the Indybay editors to ban all facets of anti-Semitic hatred are doomed to failure, since anti-Semitism is an integral part of the totality of motivations for the crowd that posts over the Indymedia network.
I know of IMC sites that permit both anti-Arab and anti-Jewish racism, and at least one site (SF-IMC) that totally forbids anti-Arab bigotry yet allows certain forms of anti-Semitism, but I've never stumbled on an IMC site that totally censors both anti-Arab and anti-Jewish racism. These facts have lead me to conclude there's a constant which is tolerance of anti-Semitism on Indymedia.
Evil nessie would try, of course, to divert your attention and blame me that I'm tainting anti-Zionism itself as anti-Semitism or all anti-Zionists as anti-Semites, yet I don't make such automatic and sweeping linkages. Experience has taught me that while anti-Zionism itself isn't necessarily anti-Semitic, most anti-Zionists (not all) are anti-Semitic to varying degrees. I make no apology for making these assertions.
amazing
by nessie's friend
Wednesday July 07, 2004 at 05:16 PM
It's just like CT said. At the moment nessie is posting to itself at Pittsburgh.
http://pittsburgh.indymedia.org/news/2004/05/14010_comment.php
Want to know what's *really* amazing?
by pointer
Wednesday July 07, 2004 at 05:36 PM
Click here:
http://www.sfimc.net/news/2004/07/1698659_comment.php
Yup,
by eye witness
Wednesday July 07, 2004 at 05:47 PM
that's pretty amazing, alright.
How does he *do* that?
what a fool
by nessie's nightmare
Wednesday July 07, 2004 at 06:42 PM
Nessie has somehow talked his enemies into spending hours and hours of their day giving him free publicity. How does he *do* that?
Now I'm without doubt convinced nessie has the mind of a child.
*I* am the "troll" who for the last several days has had nessie the Nazi tagging along like a puppy while I posted all over the planet using it's pseudonym. I've posted in places it hasn't found yet, and likely won't unless or until I decide to tell it.
It is stark raving bonkers because it is a first magnitude control freak, and now it's out of control because it can't delete me like it can at the SF-IMC.
Let it post it's fantasy about it's the talk of the town. But of course it is. How much fun can you have yanking an idiot's chain from here to Istanbul to Melbourne to Marseille to Chile to Russia....
Yeah, it's me, nessie. Only I can name those places and then some. You can't delete me, you pathetic asswipe.
How does it feel to be a fool who chases a troll over the world because of a pseudonym? Isn't your "journalism" suffering? Looks to me like you're going to miss a deadline with whatever top shelf news organization you're a stringer for.
Maybe the East Bay Express can use you in case you get shitcanned.
Gotta go. Come fly with me, asshole.
"you pathetic asswipe"
by pointer
Wednesday July 07, 2004 at 06:55 PM
Click here:
http://vancouver.indymedia.org/news/2004/07/146731_comment.php#147502
forgery is bad
by gehrig
Wednesday July 07, 2004 at 11:41 PM
Forgery is always bad, even when you're forging a paranoid buffoon like nessie. All you're doing is feeding his ego by making him believe what he's doing is somehow so important that They Are Trying To Fuck With Him.
As I've said before, there's already someone who posts nonsense all over the IMCs and signs it "nessie." There's no need for more than one.
@%<
no need?
by nessie's nightmare
Thursday July 08, 2004 at 01:47 AM
Perhaps not. I just enjoy yanking the chain of a bona fide Nazi. It's kind of like tying a dog to a bumper and putting the pedal to the metal....
Hey, nessie, how old are you, you old fart? I'm 22 years old, and have you totally devoted to me.
I'm a gun grabber. A regular badass
by nessie
Thursday July 08, 2004 at 02:03 AM
>declare your names, all of them
It’s always amusing to hear somebody give me orders who is neither paying my to obey them nor pointing a gun at me from far away enough I can’t grab it. They never learn, do they?
See:
http://www.sfimc.net/news/2003/10/1653699_comment.php#1657657
"by nessie Thursday July 08, 2004 at 09:03 AM"
by the REAL nessie
Thursday July 08, 2004 at 02:18 AM
I didn't post that. But I did post these:
http://www.sfbg.com/nessie/33.html
http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2002/05/126521_comment.php#126891
trolling is always bad
by gehrig
Thursday July 08, 2004 at 02:26 AM
troll: "It's kind of like tying a dog to a bumper and putting the pedal to the metal.... "
It's revolting. It's not amusing to toy with anyone's mental condition, even if that condition is nessie's persecution/messiah complex, and even if his reactions are so comically self-serving in a Kinbote/Clouseau kind of way.
He doesn't need your help to look like an obsessive, paranoid fool. What's more, by pointing to your trolling, he can distract you from the defeat he just took on one of his pet fixations at the IMC network level.
Trolling is bad. Spam is bad. Forgery is bad. The way to defeat nessie is the way I did: by chopping his bogus arguments to pieces, and letting readers see that Empiror Nessie-Obsessie has no clothes.
@%<
"Spam is bad."
by Gehrig is an expert on the subject
Thursday July 08, 2004 at 02:33 AM
See:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?Y28916948
no clothes
by nessie's nightmare
Thursday July 08, 2004 at 03:27 AM
With all due respect, nessie doesn't deserve any respect. Now understand what I'm saying here, I see your point. I've never bothered anyone else like this.
But let's not forget nessie really and truly is a Brown Shirt. I will not excuse that piece of shit for its mental condition. If you'd have known of him at the time he was doing his heinous deeds, would you have dismissed Dahmer for his mental condition? Apples and oranges, yes, but you catch my drift.
You know it, and I know it - nessie would steer you to the camps if it was even so much as a 7th tier nazi, the potato peeler in the ranks. nessie is dangerous, and especially because it is the head of an IMC. Might as well consider it the editor of a Nazi rag, and many of us feel the Left has gone too far. It's why I'm rebelliong. I don't know who my friends are anymore. Anarchy is one thing, but demonizing Jews like the '30's again just to have shits and giggles is something else again.
ergo
by gehrig
Thursday July 08, 2004 at 03:32 AM
* rolling eyes *
Ah, so the new nessie slandergarten rule is, if someone is spamming using your name, then it _must_ be you. There is just no possible other explanation. Somebody spammed a (slightly altered version of a) post I made to SF-IMC, therefore I MUST be the guy who did the spamming. All other explanations violate the laws of physics.
But the laws of physics apply everywhere, so we must also conclude that whoever is spamming in nessie's name _must_ be nessie. THERE IS JUST NO POSSIBLE OTHER EXPLANATION, and similar empty nessie-obsessie-like bombast.
Shame on you, nessie-obsessie -- stop spamming! Stop trolling yourself using your own name!
And what kind of twisted thing are you playing out in public by trolling yourself and then flagellating the troll, and then then letting the troll flagellate you, and ... eccchhh!
@%<
declared names
by nessie
Thursday July 08, 2004 at 03:48 AM
nessie_credentials2.png, image/png, 258x398
So what are you saying?
I don't blame Gehrig.
by obvious pseudonym
Thursday July 08, 2004 at 04:06 AM
If I was him, I'd be obsessed with nessie, too.
I might even spam his favorite website so he'd notice me.
Like this:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?Y28916948
Except I'm not Gehrig, so I have better things to do.
better things to do
by nessie the violent
Thursday July 08, 2004 at 04:16 AM
such as spam the Pittsburgh IMC with old links trying to deflect the truth that you made threats of violence to someone?
You are a violent person, perhaps even a felon, making threats across interstate lines. And you can even grab guns from people. Such a fearful dumpster dweller indeed.
nessie-obsessie slanders on
by gehrig
Thursday July 08, 2004 at 05:08 AM
nessie-obsessie: "I have better things to do."
Gee, nessie, that's stupid even by your standards. Let me remind you of the obvious: I wouldn't be here at Utah IMC defending myself against your slander if _you_ weren't here telling lies about me on an IMC I hadn't visited otherwise, and if you hadn't posted the URL of your slander on a site I _do_ read just to make sure you knew I would see that you were slandering me again.
You're a sick dude, nessie-obsessie.
Your accusation that I'm a spammer has been laughed off everywhere you've presented it, with the possible exception of that lone troll on Vancouver. Even you backpedalled away from it twice -- including once spitting, "I've never called you a spammer!" and then backpedalling away from _that_ when I produced the post in which you _had_ called me a spammer.
In other words, nessie-obsessie, it just doesn't seem to matter to you _which_ accusation you're flinging at me, as long as you're flinging an accusation, even if you know you'll only have to run away from it when your bluff is called.
It's not healthy, nessie-obsessie. It's not the sign of good mental health. You should get yourself looked at.
@%<
I'm a computer expert too
by nessie
Thursday July 08, 2004 at 05:26 AM
nessie@sfbg.com
"idiots"
by nessie
Thursday July 08, 2004 at 02:13 AM
Sorry about that. My bad. I forgot that the software here couldn't deal with that tag.
I recommend that the site switch over to SF Active. It's *much* better software.
Check it out:
http://sf.indymedia.org
the software couldn't handle the tag
by nessie's nightmare
Thursday July 08, 2004 at 03:20 PM
Anyone can see the instructions for how to make a
tag right underneath the reply box. Only a brain dead spammer who runs
an IMC itself and can do no wrong would blame something else. What a
child. Pee Wee Herman saying "I meant to do that". watch this Pittsburgh software work, (regardless of what a bedwetter says) by clicking here
never learn
by nessie IN THE FLESH
Thursday July 08, 2004 at 08:09 AM
nessie@sfbg.com
"It’s always amusing to hear somebody give me orders who is neither paying my to obey them nor pointing a gun at me from far away enough I can’t grab it. They never learn, do they?"
Actually, a kid pulled a water pistol on me last year. I sued it's parents for emotional damages. And I won. I have so much more emotional damage now.
FWIW, almost none of what has been
by nessie
Thursday July 08, 2004 at 09:31 AM
writen about me here is true, and most of what has been attributed to me was written by someone else.
If any of you want to discuss any of this privately, so you'll know it's really me talking, I can be reached at:
nessie@sfbg.com
I’m going to leave now.
by nessie
Thursday July 08, 2004 at 11:10 AM
I’ve been here long enough to make my point. If you want to talk to me, don’t do it here. Use email. Anything subsequent to this that you see with my name on it is bogus. So is almost all of what you’ve already read, no matter how realistic it appears. It’s a smear campaign. These things happen. C'est la guerre. Some people apparently think I'm worth smearing. They imitate my style. Occasionally, they imitate my content, but not often. Usually they change the meaning by altering a word or two. Either way, it’s bogus.
My signature can only be trusted here:
http://sf.indymedia.org
here:
http://www.transbay.net/~nessie/
and most of here:
http://www.sfbg.com/nessie/
except for this one:
http://www.sfbg.com/nessie/14.html
Which my editor at the Bay Guardian wrote as an April Fool’s joke. I was not amused, but at least they were paying me to be not amused. The people who have been doing this lately aren’t paying me, and I’m no longer amused, so I quit.
Anything you read with my name on it, that appears anywhere else but those three sites, take with a grain of salt. If you want to know for sure about a particular case, ask me by email. Include the URL.
Thank's in advance. Sorry for any inconvenience. Have a nice day.
Salud.
for what it's worth
by nessie the violent
Thursday July 08, 2004 at 11:26 AM
Yeah, it's true. Perception is reality, and I perceive a little schizophrenic Nazi with its tail between its legs.
Now run along home and kiil some alley cats, moron.
both sides of my neck part 2
by nessie
Friday July 09, 2004 at 09:04 AM
nessie@sfbg.com
(1.) My name isn’t nessie.
(2.) But that has nothing to do with whether I can prove it. I can’t prove it. So what? That, doesn’t mean it’s not true. Personally, I don’t care whether you believe me or not. If you don’t believe me, then you’re not who I’m talking to. I’m talking people smart enough to know that when something that is inconsistent with the bulk of my writing comes signed with my name, it’s a forgery. Anybody who’s not smart enough to grasp that, wouldn’t understand what I was saying, anyway.
(3.) Besides, who it was that wrote something is irrelevant. Only content counts. If it’s true, it doesn’t matter who says it, or why. The truth is the truth, period.
(4.) Later, when you encounter something with my name on it, posted somewhere else on the internet, consider that it may be a forgery. If it is consistent with what you know I have actually written, then I wrote it. If it is not consistent, then it’s a forgery. If you can’t tell the difference, you’re too stupid to understand what I’m saying, anyway, so don’t waste time trying.
"my writing does not need proof"
by debate coach
Thursday July 08, 2004 at 03:46 AM
That's a straw man.
It's not about the writing. It's about the name.
The text has also been altered:
>(1.) My name is nessie.
This is a typical Zionist trick.
See:
http://www.sfimc.net/news/2002/12/1555696_comment.php#1692248
(snip)
. . . subtly alter it’s meaning by changing a few words, and post it . . .
(snip)
* * * * *
Zionists *have* to lie and forge because there *is* no honest defense of ethnic cleansing.
somebody change its panties
by the REAL nessie
Friday July 09, 2004 at 10:21 AM
If the content is what's important, then why should you care about a "forgery"?
And you have spammed the IMC's with that pitiful tale of woe,
where those mean widdle editors played an April Fool's joke on you. For
one thing, who cares except you? Did you need a forum to wet your
panties? Did you have to go around the world and whine and BITCH and complain about a slight?
Actually, I think you wrote it, and it's so goddamn piss poor, so
bereft of basic writing skills, that it could only be you. Even Ray
Charles couldn't miss it, ain't that right, Mr. Journalist? Or have you
switched horses and are a software consultant, you adolescent piece of
shit?
Give our regards to the missus.
I don't know who this "nessie" is
by newbie
Saturday July 10, 2004 at 03:01 AM
but with enemies like these, he must be alright.
newbie nessie
by the REAL nessie
Saturday July 10, 2004 at 03:41 AM
I posted that. I wrote that. It's a forgery, but it's my forgery. I've also posted this identical forgery at Pittsburgh and Idaho.
I must think you're all idiots. Who knows where and when I'll lie to you again?
Well, come to think of it, I really do think you're all idiots.
Speaking of the buffoon nessie's ever changing occupations
by Critical Thinker
Saturday July 10, 2004 at 11:05 PM
What d'ya know. One day he's a journalist, the next he's an anarchist, next - debate coach, and still further down the road - a historian (but not a journalist!). Don't believe me? Let the sucker himself tell you!:
""Go sniff some more glue or weed, 'journalist' nessie."
by nessie • Monday May 17, 2004 at 01:57 PM
I'm not a journalist. I'm a historian. Sometimes I focus on very recent history, that's all. Other times, I focus on the less recent past."
http://vancouver.indymedia.org/news/2003/10/76594_comment.php#136064
(Ah, but he recently switched backed to journalism...or did he?)
Don't go in here!!!!!
by Warning
Sunday July 11, 2004 at 03:29 AM
It's a trap:
http://www.sfimc.net/news/2004/07/1698821_comment.php#1698897
Wendy Campbell-Stormfront member?
by Nathan
Sunday July 11, 2004 at 04:51 AM
I know the first gut response will be to roll
your eyes because of the mention of Free Republic, and the editors
might want to delete this post. I ask you to at least *consider* what's
below. If a Nazi group is looking for people sympathetic to them, why
can't they look to liberal groups just the same? Read of their tactics,
and imagine they're also here at an IMC. And ask yourself about Wendy
Campbell. Who is she? When did she appear? What are her credentials? ----------------------
Svyatoslav_Igorevich has taken a keen interest in inducing Stormfront
members to register at Free Republic. Free Republic is approximately
five times as large as Stormfront. "How do we penetrate Free Republic?" http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=136636
Over the past few years, Free Republic has gotten less and less
interesting. However, many posters and readers at Free Republic are
four square behind stopping the illegal invasion from Mexico. This is
one topic on which you will be allowed to post at Free Republic.
Free Republic does not suffer criticism of Jewry, so- if you insist on
trying to get that topic in, you'll be banned in short order. That is
certain. They will allow minority crime
stories, but don't try and headline it "Negro Rapes and Kills White
College Girl" etc., cause you'll be history. I
believe you have to be a member for a very brief while- a few days or a
week, before you can start your own threads, but you can post from the
start. A few ideas I have on registration
names: perhaps it would be wise to use names they can relate to
easily...GOPin04, WtheBEST, ConservativeGirl (take up a girl's name as
a handle- most politicos are men, and they'll appreciate it LOL),
GodBlessUSA, SupportOurBoysInIraq etc. And don't use my examples, cause
for certain, Jim Robinson and his mods will soon find out about and
read this thread. Remember. What we consider
staid, they consider radical racist. If you find a good minority on
White current crime tale- toss it right in there. Then, for good
measure- just to show you're not racist (cause some of them will say-
"You ONLY ever post black on White crime!")...well, post some White
homo principal who's been playing with his students. A digital
incursion onto Free Republic can be managed. We have the numbers, and
the abilities. But a lot of us will get knocked out as surely as if we
had been British redcoats charging in a line, if we don't be sensible
and clever. Remember these pointers before you click that mouse. And ask yourself: "Would Jim Robinson post this?"
If we meet with some successes, we can't come back to Stormfront and
say- "I am posting over at Free Republic as "RightWingChick" and here's
what I said...", cause their mods will be following our threads having
to do with the incursion. We could post threads in which we've
participated and let everyone at Free Republic and Stormfront guess,
but we simply can't name our names and expect to go undetected. Jim
Robinosn will even be looking for increases in registrations, and all
those who have registered within 30 days or so of
Svyatoslav_Igorevich's
I talk to myself
by trained opponent
Sunday July 11, 2004 at 04:03 PM
nessie@sfbg.com
nessie talks to himself
"That's a far cry from calling this story disinformation, however."
by one of the editors
Saturday July 10, 2004 at 11:22 PM
I never said it was.
>Given that this is not an isolated incident
Indeed it is not. However that is a separate issue from the veracity of this particular story.
>and given that it is corroborated by the Palestine News Network (PNN) site above,
“Corroborated” is too strong a word. It was also reported by PNN. But since
http://www.aljazeerah.info
is not credible, that makes PNN the sole source of this story. No story
reported by a single source should ever be believed unless it is
corroborated by a credible source.
Look, we have to err on
the side of caution here because we’re in a war. If this is a set up,
that comes back to haunt us later, the enemy will have won a round. The
credibility of Indymedia, and of this site in especially, and my own in
particular, is under constant attack. Lately it has been pretty
intense, though crude.
See:
http://www.sfimc.net/news/2004/07/1698659_comment.php
A set up is a lot more sophisticated. Just because some of our more
visible enemies are dumber than floorboards, doesn’t mean we don’t also
have some subtle, sophisticated, clever and in some cases trained,
opponents. We must never let our guard down.
It could be that
the current wave of attacks were never intended to succeed. It could be
that they were intended to distract our vigilance while a more subtle
attack slipped in under our radar.
Some of these guys will
attack a spelling error. They’ll even fake typos, just so they have
something to point out as one of our failings. Since they’re *that*
petty, what do you think they’d do if they caught us reporting an
anti-Zionist sounding news story that later turned out to have been
false? We’d hear about it forever. Our credibility would suffer.
Credibility is the heart, soul, and essence of journalism. If
Indymedia's content is not credible, our message will be lost for it
will fall on deaf ears.
See:
http://sfbay.indymedia.org/news/hidden.php?id=1688343#1688383
So we *must* err on the side of caution. This thing smells like trap
bait. Maybe it isn’t, but we don’t have the time to find out. We’re
busy here. So why don’t you help us out a little. Track this story
down. Start by finding out who’s behind PNN, and who Muath Shrideh is.
Let us know what you find. Inquiring minds want to know.
"A set up"
by just wondering
Saturday July 10, 2004 at 11:33 PM
Have you set traps that subtle for them?
Good question.
by since you asked . . .
Saturday July 10, 2004 at 11:36 PM
We neither confirm nor deny having committed the alleged perpetration.
Better to err on the side of caution.
Caution is for wimps.
by don't be such a wimp
Saturday July 10, 2004 at 11:48 PM
Go on, take a chance. What the hell. Nothing
ventured, nothing gained. Stick your neck out. Be a man. Show us you
have what it takes. You *are* a man, right?
Not just any man, either.
by pointer
Sunday July 11, 2004 at 04:45 PM
This man:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?X6A8227C8
I'm a 55 year old bedwetter
by 55 year old bedwetter
Tuesday July 13, 2004 at 05:31 PM
nessie@sfbg.com
I'm going to save everyone the trouble of having to click on my pathetic and peurile link to "nessie's House of Bedwetting". Instead of all you voyeurs hungry to see a lobotomy in progress having to come to me, I'll bring my extreme mental illness to you.
top shelf "journalist" collects injustices
Smear campaign backfires.
by what a guy
Wednesday July 07, 2004 at 11:30 PM
One of our enemies is spending hours and
hours of his day giving this website free publicity, mainly by
committing serial forgery, with a smattering of slander thrown in for
good measure.
Check it out:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?A1A721BB8
My current favorites are:
by just wondering
Wednesday July 07, 2004 at 11:51 PM
http://utah.indymedia.org/news/2004/06/8749_comment.php#8937
and:
http://pittsburgh.indymedia.org/news/2004/05/14010_comment.php#14517
What are yours?
nessie sucks
by and that's his good side
Friday July 09, 2004 at 10:40 AM
See:
http://www.sfimc.net/news/2002/11/1546540_comment.php#1693585
Oooooh, here's a good one.
by pointer
Saturday July 10, 2004 at 08:43 AM
See:
http://chapelhill.indymedia.org/news/2004/07/11020_comment.php
Roorbacks, black propaganda and forgeries on Indymedia.
by pointer
Sunday July 11, 2004 at 01:56 PM
See:
http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2002/12/1555696_comment.php
Pick of the day
by pointer
Sunday July 11, 2004 at 08:12 PM
Click here:
http://idaho.indymedia.org/news/2004/07/9576_comment.php
Don't go in here!
by warning
Monday July 12, 2004 at 11:20 PM
It's a trap:
http://www.sfimc.net/news/2004/07/1698821_comment.php#1698897
SmashTheLeft in his own words
by what a guy
Monday July 12, 2004 at 11:45 PM
See:
http://www.sfimc.net/news/2003/01/1562636.php
(snip)
The "peace movement" is a fraud. The Grateful Dead, the Merry
Pranksters, and many (most) others in the entertainment industry are
freemason satanists. The "peace movement" of the 60s was a totally
orchestrated mind control operation of freemason change agents. There
is very little doubt in my mind that indymedia is also a product of
spoiled brats of very wealthy freemason families. SMASH THE LEFT. SMASH
FREEMASONRY. THE GRATEFUL DEAD ARE FREEMASON SATANISTS, JUST LIKE
STEWART BRAND AND THE MERRY PRANKSTERS KEN KESEY AND KEN BABBS.
(snip)
But wait, there's more!
by pointer
Monday July 12, 2004 at 11:49 PM
See:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?H216257C8
Who is Smashy, anyhow?
by pointer
Tuesday July 13, 2004 at 12:23 AM
See:
http://idaho.indymedia.org/news/2004/07/9576_comment.php#9585
(snip)
He’s been obsessed with nessie for years. It’s probably because of unrequited sexual attraction.
(snip)
Or maybe he's getting paid.
by pointer
Tuesday July 13, 2004 at 06:31 PM
See:
http://www.sfimc.net/news/hidden.php?id=1699019#1699078
(snip)
I'll be around for the rest of your miserable life. My bosses have made sure of that.
(snip)
See also,
by pointer
Tuesday July 13, 2004 at 06:38 PM
this:
http://www.sfimc.net/news/2003/12/1666652_comment.php#1676181
See also,
by pointer
Tuesday July 13, 2004 at 06:51 PM
this:
http://www.sfimc.net/news/2003/12/1666652_comment.php#1676181
See also,
by pointer
Tuesday July 13, 2004 at 06:52 PM
this:
http://www.sfimc.net/news/2004/05/1694976.php
Fun!
by Chey Chase
Wednesday July 14, 2004 at 01:11 AM
Guys & gals, these comments are even better than the "Letters" section to "National Lampoon." I love it! What a riot!
Thanks for the laughs,
Chev
Thank the right guy.
by check this out
Wednesday July 14, 2004 at 01:24 AM
Click here:
http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/09/1644537_comment.php#1688757
the "right" guy
by Lee
Wednesday July 14, 2004 at 04:28 AM
nessie gets called by an irate Thunder Bay resdient, and nessie tells the poster to not be self centered! The credibility of nessie's "journalism" is more important. Not one ounce of sympathy or empathy. With nessie it's all about me ME ME ! Nono......
by Thunder Bay resident
Monday July 12, 2004 at 01:19 PM
You
might be missing my point. I don't care about Nessie or you or the
disagreements that have developed between you on other sites. This is
like having dinner in a restaurant and two people crashing through the
window fighting to ruin your conversation. What part of fuck off! don't
you understand?
"You might be missing my point."
by nessie
Wednesday July 14, 2004 at 06:50 AM
Don’t be so self centered. This isn’t about you and it isn’t about this particular site.
It's about an organized attack on the credibility of Indymedia, and on
my personal credibility as an activist and a journalist. It’s happening
all over the network. Lately, it’s been mainly the work of one guy,
SmashTheLeft. But he’s not alone. There is an organized effort by
Indymedia’s enemies to destroy it. They even admit it:
http://www.sfimc.net/news/2004/04/1688517.php
But smashy is the worst, at least lately.
See:
http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/09/1644537_comment.php#1688757
As long as this guy attacks here, or anywhere, I have the right and the
duty to defend myself and to defend Indymedia. If you don't don’t want
to read it, click your mouse and go to a different thread. Better
still, convince the editors of this site to ban Smashy. Even better
still, join in Indymedia’s defense.
Here’s a discussion of editorial policy you may find interesting:
http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Global/BasicEditorialPolicy
enough.
by Thunder Bay resident
Wednesday July 14, 2004 at 10:24 AM
Self
centred? Self centred? What the fuck are you talking about? If I'm self
centred than what would you call posting the same links a zillion times
and having arguments over your precious credibility on someone else's
site? If this is a systematic attack on Indymedia, then why is your
name and useless shit taking up so much space? If you're such a
credible journalist, then why don't you publish something other than
personal attacks?
Better yet, why don't you stop calling me
self centred, you egotistical maniac, and go ruin some other open
publishing site? But I think I'll take your advice and talk to the
editorial collective. If you think you're the caped avenger of
Indymedia in saving it from anyone trying to destroy it, you might want
to do us all a favor and protect us from you. I recommend you take the
first step, as I have so often suggested, by fucking off.
Please!
"an irate Thunder Bay resdient"
by doubtful
Wednesday July 14, 2004 at 11:54 PM
More likely it was Smashy himself, pretending to be a Thunder Bay resident the same way he pretends to be nessie.
more doubt
by Ethan
Thursday July 15, 2004 at 02:04 AM
And it's even more doubtful you are anyone but nessie, supposedly defending one name and using many others. nessie is well known for his tactics, for spamming indy with his brand of "humour".
"using many"
by look: he even admits it
Thursday July 15, 2004 at 04:02 AM
http://vancouver.indymedia.org/news/2004/07/148485_comment.php#148917
I see that
by Ethan
Thursday July 15, 2004 at 04:10 AM
I also see someone has asked honest questions, and you have attacked them as parasites.
This isn't about the credibility of the indymedia collective as a whole, not at all. It appears it is all about YOU. It's astonishing you would attack someone and call them a parasite just for wanting to have a scorecard. It's time the collective ran you out on a rail.
"I see that"
by of course you did
Thursday July 15, 2004 at 01:50 PM
But did you see this?
http://vancouver.indymedia.org/news/2004/05/138744_comment.php#148989
He confessed!
by check it out
Saturday July 17, 2004 at 02:07 AM
Click here:
http://sfbay.indymedia.org/news/2004/07/1688965_comment.php#1689071
you have the mind of a child
by truthteller
Saturday July 17, 2004 at 02:46 AM
A man that uses many names complains about a man who uses many names.
Considering you're linking to something written back in 2002, I'm having a hard time figuring out just who the real troll is in 2004.
"something written back in 2002"
by a pattern of abuse
Saturday July 17, 2004 at 05:47 AM
He's been harrassing Indymedia for years.
See also:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?H216257C8
harrassing Indymedia for years
by really?
Saturday July 17, 2004 at 06:47 AM
So have you. What's new?
"So have you"
by nessie
Saturday July 17, 2004 at 11:08 AM
Oh really? Cite an example.
Examples abound!
by Critical Thinker
Saturday July 17, 2004 at 09:01 PM
nessie-obsessie puts on this supposedly naive facade of innocence as if no one could call his bluff. why don't you search evil nessie's comments on Van-Indy. A thorough search would reveal several posts within the April-June time span that had been spammed in multiple copies. Try the words "Zionists are inveterate liars." for your search for one of the prime examples.
I gloat at nessie-obsessie's misfortune. Since his harasser or band of harassers began yanking his chain early this month, there has been a considerable decline in his trolling of the Indybay. "nessie's nightmare", keep up the good work pounding Obsessie!
old trick
by really?
Sunday July 18, 2004 at 02:32 AM
So, you want me to prove you're an asshole who has split the SF group?
I'll give it when you prove beyond a shadow of a doubt it's Smashy and not YOU who is doing the spamming so a bored child can get attention.
nessie-obsessie
by gehrig
Sunday July 18, 2004 at 04:26 AM
Hey, nessie-obsessie, thought you were leaving this thread. That's what you said on July 8: "I'm going to leave now. I've been here long enough to make my point."
Ah, but then, what's another lie from nessie's lips?
@%<
he said "salud" too, didn't he?
by the REAL nessie's nightmare
Sunday July 18, 2004 at 10:52 AM
nessiephrenic wants someone to name an example of its spamming. How about the "salud" copy and pastes, at least 11 Google has cached as of Friday, where he regaled us of his diaper soaking tale of woe with the April Fool joke? Boo frickin' hoo.
The fact that he's an idiot following me around, and pasting ad nauseum "it's a forgery! Waah! For more of my bedwetting, click here"....that's harrassment of the indys. It's been done to death.
You wanna be taken seriously, little boy? Use one name, and one only. That's all I'll allow, and yes, I am in control now. Your days of being king of the dung heap are over, and it was the moment I yanked your chain.
Come fly with me, asswipe.
journalistic tour de force
by amplifiering happiness reflector
Sunday July 18, 2004 at 01:08 PM
nessie@sfbg.com some dumpster
Die Like a Dog
by nessie
Sunday July 18, 2004 at 05:19 PM
Tip was a good dog. He was murdered in cold
blood by a cruel and heartless man who got away with it because he is a
cop. Tip is dead, but not forgotten. He lives in the hearts of those he
left behind, and in the hearts of all who love dogs and justice more
than they love the cops. Last Friday night, Tip's extended family held
a candlelight memorial for him in front of San Francisco's main
cop-shop/courthouse at 850 Bryant St.
hisfamily.jpg, image/jpeg, 499x264
When Tip was murdered, one of his human companions
became quite understandably hysterical. Her name is Janet. She wasn't
trying to hurt anybody. She was just screaming. She couldn't have hurt
anybody if she wanted to. She was recovering from hip surgery, and was
only able to walk with a cane and great difficulty. The cops wrestled
her to the ground and restrained her. In the process, one of them broke
his own sunglasses. So Janet was charged with assaulting an officer.
When I heard about this, I made it my business to be at the so-called
“Hall of Justice” at 850 Bryant St. when Janet showed up for her first
hearing. I interviewed her and two other witnesses. I have refrained
from publishing it until now because I didn't want to jinx her case.
Eventually, a judge threw the case out, but not before the ordeal had
extracted time from Janet's life, and caused her a great deal of worry.
As the SFPD take such joy in reminding the people they bust on bunk
charges, you can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride.
Some people would consider Chuck, Janet, and Dusty to be homeless
people. Actually, they are vehicle dwellers. Their home is on wheels.
The day Tip was shot, they were parked close to a dog park, along with
a number of other similar vehicles. It is technically illegal to live
in a vehicle on the street in SF. The loophole is you only have to move
every 72 hours. There are several communities of vehicle dwellers in
SF. They comprise a couple hundred individuals. They tend to look out
for each other. They have to. The police push them around. All too
often, the police murder their dogs, just because they can. All too
often, the police also murder dogs who are companions of the truly
homeless people, the ones who live on the sidewalk and under the
bridges. While this happens fairly often, it is seldom if ever reported
in the media. On the rare occasions that a middle class dog and the
police tangle, it's news for days. Ask Max Castro, of San Francisco's Sunset District, or the Smoak family of North Carolina.
There are said to be ten to twenty thousand homeless people in SF. My
guess is there are a lot more, and they just hide. There are a great
many other people who are technically not homeless because they couch
surf. My guess is based on personal experience. Giving away 1600 pounds
of food every Thursday morning for six years in the eighties brought me
into contact with a lot of hungry people. They included homeless
people, couch surfers, vehicle dwellers and just plain poor people who
have somehow managed to still hold onto their rooms and apartments.
There are many of different kinds of poor people. They have little in
common but poverty. But that's enough. Poverty is a full time job.
Among the homeless, women are in the majority, a lot of them with
children. You don't see them because they hide.
Back in the
day, many vehicle dwellers drew a class distinction between themselves
and the people who sleep in the bushes. Consistent and uniform
persecution by the police has eroded this attitude by blurring the line
between them. So has the increasing number of people who can’t afford
to pay rent. Real estate speculation and Bush’s recession have made
rent an unaffordable luxury for even many working poor. Then there’s
the cops. If they tow your vehicle, it’s gone, and everything you own
with it. you’re “kicked to the curb,” as the saying goes, and have to
start over from nothing. None of Tip’s friends draw the distinction
between those who live on wheels and those who live on their feet. Poor
is poor. All poor people are in ever so slight variations of the same
predicament. All are persecuted by the police. So are their dogs.
When you think of homeless people, you tend to think of disheveled
winos, begging on the street. They are the ones you see, because they
are the ones who don't hide. They are the tip of the iceberg. Far more
common are people like Chuck and Janet, who are neither disheveled nor
substance abusers, and their friend Dusty, who despite the moniker is
clean and well dressed, and who is in recovery.
Tip was
Chuck's dog, or rather, Chuck was Tip’s person. Chuck is Janet's
significant other. Dusty is often their neighbor. Chuck, Janet and Tip
were a family of three. Now they are just a grieving couple. For a
living, they scavenge scrap metal. It pays only slightly better than
welfare, and takes up a lot of time. But you don't have to punch a
clock, or take orders from a boss. To some people, that's worth more
than money. Scavenging is good exercise, too. It keeps Chuck in shape.
I wish I looked as healthy as he does. The guy is built like a line
backer. His size alone made the point in the narrative where he breaks
down be a particularly heart rending moment. I gave him a big hug when
it was over.
My connection with Tip is my friend Jane. Chuck
saved Jane's life once. She made friends with him and Janet. Tip made
friends with her. He was a very friendly dog. He made many, many
friends. Most were poor. That's why he died the way he did. Rich
people's dogs don't die this way.
Jane can't keep a dog where
she lives, and she can't afford to move. She has a real deal on
housing, and in this town, that's not something one walks away from.
Rent is very expensive here. When you have a deal, you stick with it,
or you have to leave town. New rentals are through the roof.
When Tip was alive, and Jane was feeling depressed, she would borrow
Tip and they would go walking. He always cheered her up. Sometimes she
borrows my dog for the same reason. Dogs are good
for this sort of thing. Mammalian emotions are contagious, and it is
very easy to make a dog happy. A dog can feel much greater happiness
than its little brain can hold. The rest spills out, and gets all over
whoever is nearby and has feelings. They act as a sort of amplifiering
happiness reflectors. If you are so devoid of feelings as to be unable
to share a dog's happiness, you're a psychic cripple. Get help. If that
doesn't work out, you can always get a job with the SFPD. They hire
people like you. You'd fit right into their culture.
For
years, Jane tried to introduce me to Tip, whom she assured me I would
like a great deal. She told me all about his personality, and how smart
he was, and all the tricks he did, and how many friends he had, and how
friendly he was, and how much people liked him, and how much I would
like him, and when would I come and meet him? But I always kept putting
it off, and now it's too late.
I'll never get to see him
catch a tennis ball on the fly and drop it into the wire panniers of a
moving bicycle. I'll never get to see him run along side and untie the
cyclist's shoelace as he ran. I'll never get to see him lift from
Jane's shoulders the crushing weight of depression that medication
could never touch. I'll never get to shake his paw or rub his belly or
feel his soft, warm tongue on my cheek. He's dead and gone, murdered in
cold blood by a cruel and heartless man.
But he's not
forgotten. He lives in the hearts of those he left behind, and in the
hearts of all who love dogs and justice more than they love the cops.
Saddam's Sons in Hell With Devil, My Cat, Furball
by angie's son little timmy
Sunday July 18, 2004 at 05:56 PM
11-furball.jpg, image/jpeg, 330x150
My daddy was reportedly happy today that Saddam's sons, Ooooday and Kwadsay, were sent straight to live with the devul after our Army shot them down, he said, "like the goddam dirty sons-of-bitches that they are." Mommy confirmed the location of Saddam's kids by agreeing with Daddy that they were "sent straight to hell with that damn cat that your daddy accidentally sent to Hell with his Chevelle all them years ago," referring to my cat, Furball. "Yep, they's down there," Mommy said in between sips of her special juice drink. "Damn thing was a pain in the ass if you ask me, kept pulling on the tablecloth and broke my favorite porcelain Elvis doll."
Hey evil obsessie, you seasoned liar
by Critical Thinker
Sunday July 18, 2004 at 08:05 PM
Who knows where and when you'll be lying to us again? (How true!)
Not one item posted in this thread since
by the REAL nessie
Tuesday July 20, 2004 at 07:43 PM
Sunday July 04, 2004 at 09:59 AM PM was actually posted by me. It’s a psy-war tactic whose purpose is to, in part, to confuse you as to who I really am. It's a case of what’s called in spookspeak, “black propaganda.”
See:
http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2002/12/1555696_comment.php#1555703
This guy must think you really are idiots. But don't take it personally. You have plenty of company. There are people all over this planet who he must think are idiots.
See:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?C3A7239B8
But hey, what do you expect? That's the kind of people who attack Indymedia. They're evil, but not very bright. They're organized, though. They even brag about it:
http://www.sfimc.net/news/2004/04/1688517.php
Almost none of what has been written about me here is true, and most of what has been attributed to me lately, both here and elsewhere, was actually written by somebody else.
If any of you would like to discuss any of this privately, so you can be sure it’s really me who’s talking, I can be reached at:
nessie@sfbg.com
I’m going to leave this thread now. I’ve been here long enough to make my point. If you want to talk to me, don’t do it here. Use email. Anything subsequent to this comment that you see in this thread with my name on it is bogus. So is almost all of what you’ve already read, here and elsewhere, no matter how realistic it appears. It’s a generic smear campaign.
See:
http://www.sfimc.net/news/2004/07/1698659_comment.php
These things happen. C'est la guerre. Some people apparently think I'm important enough to be worth smearing. As long as they think so, I am. They imitate my style. Occasionally, they imitate my content, but not often. Usually they change the meaning by altering a word or two. Either way, it’s bogus.
My signature can only be trusted here:
http://sf.indymedia.org
here:
http://www.transbay.net/~nessie/
and most of here:
http://www.sfbg.com/nessie/
except for this one:
http://www.sfbg.com/nessie/14.html
which my editor at the Bay Guardian wrote as an April Fool’s joke. I was not amused, but at least they were paying me to be not amused. The people who have been doing posting under my name lately aren’t paying me, and I’m bored with this thread, so I quit.
Anything subsequent that gets posted to this thread in my name is bogus for sure. Anything you read with my name on it, that appears anywhere else but those three sites, may be bogus, so take it with a grain of salt. If you want to know for sure about a particular case, ask me by email. Include the URL.
Thank's in advance. Sorry for any inconvenience. Have a nice day.
Salud.
I lied to you above.
by the REAL nessie
Tuesday July 20, 2004 at 11:24 PM
I have posted a few items in this thread since Sunday July 04, 2004 at 09:59 AM PM. I'm continuously waging a psy-war tactic whose purpose is to, in part, confuse you as to who I really am. It's a case of what’s called in spookspeak, “black propaganda.”
See:
http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2002/12/1555696_comment.php#1555703
I must think you really are idiots. Do take it personally. You have plenty of company. There are people all over this planet who I must think are idiots.
See:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?C3A7239B8
But hey, what do you expect from me? I'm chief among that the kind of people who attack Indymedia. I'm evil, but not bright whatsoever. I'm organized, though. I even brag about it:
Almost all of what has been written about me here is true, and most of what has been attributed to me lately, both here and elsewhere, was mostly written by myself.
If any of you would like to discuss any of this privately, so you can be sure it’s really me who’s talking, I can be reached at:
nessie@sfbg.com
I’m not really going to leave this thread now. I haven’t been here long enough to make my point. If you want to talk to me, do it also here. Don't waste precious inbox space on me. I'm not worth it. Anything subsequent to this comment that you see in this thread with my name on it might be bogus, or not. But almost all of what you’ve already read, here and elsewhere about me, no matter how bogus it appears, is realistic. Rememeber, I’m waging a generic smear campaign against Indymedia. I'm the parasaite I accuse others of being
See:
http://www.sfimc.net/news/2004/07/1698659_comment.php
These things happen. C'est la guerre. I apparently think I'm important enough to be worth smearing as a ploy to drum up publicity for myself. As long as I think it's worth it, I do it. I imitate my own style. Occasionally, I make up content I never did before, but not often. Usually I change the meaning by altering a word or two. Either way, it’s bogus.
Some of the places my signature can be trusted:
http://sf.indymedia.org
here:
http://www.transbay.net/~nessie/
and most of here:
http://www.sfbg.com/nessie/
I, who have been doing posting under my name lately am not paying myself, and I’m bored with this thread, but will not necessarily quit.
Anything subsequent that gets posted to this thread in my name is might be bogus, or not. Anything you read with my name on it, that appears anywhere else but those three sites, may be bogus, so take it with a huge grain of salt. If you want to know for sure about a particular case, ask me on the particular thread. Include the URL.
Thank's in advance. Sorry for any inconvenience. Have a nice day.
Salud.
you forgot something
by proofreader
Wednesday July 21, 2004 at 08:17 AM
Where's the bedwetting part about the mean widdle Bay Guardian editors and their April Fool joke?
Nazis R Us
by trash spotter
Wednesday July 21, 2004 at 04:31 PM
Provide an official list of the names you deem is yours and yours alone, names legally registered and trademarked by an official body. Otherwise you have no claim.
"the REAL nessie"
by not
Thursday July 22, 2004 at 10:13 AM
I have decided that any and all names are mine, and I will simply declare *all* names as forgeries.
It's all about ME ME ME ME ME!
For more about ME ME ME ME ME, click here:
http://www.sfimc.net/news/2002/11/1546540_comment.php
(subject to change without notice)
look
by pointer
Sunday July 25, 2004 at 05:39 AM
http://vancouver.indymedia.org/news/2004/07/151020_comment.php
COINTELPRO
by nessie
Monday July 26, 2004 at 01:47 AM
nessie@sfbg.com
I can post things like this all day long, but it won't change the fact I publicly said I am ashamed for being a breeder (what does that say about the love of my child?) and that Harry Hay, fondly remembered on the NAMBLA web site, was a great man.
Would you trust me around your children? Should I be given responsibility of editing an IMC?
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 01:08:42 +0100
From: Anthony <ant@unison.ie>
X-Accept-Language: en, ga
To: IMC Ireland Editorial <imc-ireland-editorial@lists.indymedia.org>
CC: nessie@sfbg.com
Subject: Site being used to discredit Indymedian
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Jul 2004 00:19:48.0050 (UTC) FILETIME=[42964B20:01C472A6]
> Date : Sunday, Jul 25 2004, 11:15am
> Action : hide comment 82518 performed by chekov
> Reason : weird forgery accusation posted across threads
>
> --- Comment 82518 ---
> Parent Story : http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=65992
> Title : forgery
> Author : the REAL newshound
> Organisation :
> Email : nessie@sfbg.com
Hi all,
I just thought I'd give ye a heads up on this issue.
This is a strange one. I first came across Nessie a month or so ago in
the archives for some of the global lists. Nessie is an editor on SF
Indymedia. A while back, Vancouver Indymedia was (quite possible, still
is) being over-run by Zionists, anti-Semites and Nazis. It was
interesting to note that though the site had a large enough base of
users, not many new people had taken the initiative to become involved
in the editorial process with the consequence that it was down to just
one or two over-worked individuals trying to keep the project going.
Anyhow, Nessie - as an SF editor - used the comments on the site to offer to help clean up the newswire as he hadn't received any reply on their editorial email list. Since then, I've come across impersonations of him on other sites such as the article I recently linked to on Melbourne IMC. From what I can tell he's fairly diligent in getting rid of fascist posts back on SF IMC and this seems to have earned him the enmity of extreme right-wingers who are used to posting their racist crap on other IMCs.
This article summarises the situation best:
http://www.sfimc.net/news/2004/07/1698659_comment.php
So basically, the comments we've had complaining about impersonations are themselves impersonations.
I just thought that people might like to be aware of the context behind
such strange comments. It seems that (for the first time?), we're
dealing with not just trolling across articles but trolling across
newswires.
I wanted to go through the editorial procedure of getting in touch with Nessie to confirm that he is not the author of such comments before hiding any impersonating him by using his email address.
Here's the email I sent him:
Hi Nessie,
I'm one of the editors in Ireland. We've had a number of what looks to me like impersonations of you on our newswire in recent days.
Two such examples are:
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=65997#comment82519
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=65858#comment81072
I've seen other examples of what looks to me like impersonation on other sites. e.g. http://212.100.232.170/news/2004/06/1818.php
http://www.ntimc.org/newswire.php?story_id=962
I presume that the postings on our site are just a continuation of those listed in http://makeashorterlink.com/?A1A721BB8
You can see links to all the "nessie" posts on our site at http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?type=all&convert_dates=true&search_text=nessie&text_where_mode=OR&search_comments=on
Some of them have already been hidden as they were contravening other guidelines such as the anti-racist one.
Impersonations are explicitly against our guidelines and are liable to be hidden but we need to confirm it (if only for the sake of going through the procedure correctly) before taking action. Hence, the reason for this email. At times, it requires some effort to discern fact from fiction and genuine posts from impersonations as some of the disinformation is quite subtle.
Ever think of using GnuPG to sign your emails / newswire posts?
You seem to have a real problem with impersonations. Mind you, I'd imagine that your enemies would just sign their posts with something that just looked like your signature. It would still be better than nothing though. Those who are active in seeking the truth would have a means of verifying that posts from you are genuine. Interestingly, your impersonator on our IMC responded on the newswire to such a suggestion. (see http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=65858 ).
Anyhow, I don't think there's any real harm done as not many people here in Ireland (including me) know you.
* * *
Here's his reply:
Thanks for the heads up. These things are happening all over the world lately. It's a troll named SmashTheLeft. He's been harassing Indymedia, SF-IMC especially, and me in particular, for years. He hates me. He's really obsessed. I'm his white whale.
Here's the story:
http://www.sfimc.net/news/2004/07/1698659_comment.php
Just delete anything signed by nessie, debate coach, just wondering, pointer, the REAL nessie, or anything else you even *suspect* of being Smashy. If I ever want to post on your site, I'll warn you in advance by email.
Thanks again. I wish every IMC site's editors were as conscientious as you. are.
* * *
I think our guidelines are already sufficiently robust to deal with most of the newswire abuse by this Smash the Left character. Coincidentally, between sending the email to Nessie and getting the response, I had just hidden a comment from 'pointer' with no news content but a link to an sfimc article and NAMBLA. however, now we know he is currently using our site to attack nessie, it'll be easier to spot him at it.
-Anthony
JEW FOR BUSH
by donald Iarussi MFA
Wednesday August 04, 2004 at 12:01 PM
nytex@eudoramail.com 501-646-7769 pob 521342 slc utah 84152
It is always the right time to be proud of your Jewish heritage and your beliefs. We speak the language of love, yet, the PLO . Al qaeda, Taliban Nation Of Islam have all called for our demise.
We were murdered under the Democratic partys watch of Franklin Roosevelt, iceland sent us away and back to germany
Democrat presidential candidate Al Sharpton called us "interlopers"
fomer 80's Democratic presidential candidate Jesse Jackon called NYC "Himeytown"
the list goes on!
I am an Italian Jew and will vote for Bush and for a free and independent Israel. Before Coff Annon talks about our wall, he should examine his own nation and North Korea and China, etc.
NEVER AGAIN
JEW FOR BUSH
by donald Iarussi MFA
Wednesday August 04, 2004 at 12:01 PM
nytex@eudoramail.com 501-646-7769 pob 521342 slc utah 84152
It is always the right time to be proud of your Jewish heritage and your beliefs. We speak the language of love, yet, the PLO . Al qaeda, Taliban Nation Of Islam have all called for our demise.
We were murdered under the Democratic partys watch of Franklin Roosevelt, Iceland sent us away and back to germany
Democrat presidential candidate Al Sharpton called us "interlopers"
fomer 80's Democratic presidential candidate Jesse Jackon called NYC "Himeytown"
the list goes on!
I am an Italian Jew and will vote for Bush and for a free and independent Israel. Before Coff Annon talks about our wall, he should examine his own nation and North Korea and China, etc.
NEVER AGAIN
Jew For Peace
by donald Iarussi MFA
Wednesday August 04, 2004 at 12:03 PM
democratsforbush@juno.com 501-646-7769 pob 521342 slc utah 84152
It is always the right time to be proud of your Jewish heritage and your beliefs. We speak the language of love, yet, the PLO . Al qaeda, Taliban Nation Of Islam have all called for our demise.
We were murdered under the Democratic partys watch of Franklin Roosevelt, Iceland sent us away and back to germany
Democrat presidential candidate Al Sharpton called us "interlopers"
fomer 80's Democratic presidential candidate Jesse Jackon called NYC "Himeytown"
the list goes on!
I am an Italian Jew and will vote for Bush and for a free and independent Israel. Before Coff Annon talks about our wall, he should examine his own nation and North Korea and China, etc.
NEVER AGAIN
www.democratsforbush.com
Demos have their heads in the sand
by Black American Anti-semites
Friday August 06, 2004 at 10:06 AM
"Before Coff Annon talks about our wall, he should examine his own nation and North Korea and China, etc."
RIGHT ON!!! In addition...there is a WALL quietly being built by Saudi Arabia (border with Yemen), and Thailand (border with Malaysia) as well...They both share something in common with Israel...the Security fences being built keep out Islamic terrorists!
I'll vote for Bush too, the Democratic party has been hijacked! (Although I'm a Democrat)
Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Cynthia McKinney...Black American anti-semite club...
IT'S ALL TOO TRUE!
by IT'S ALL TOO TRUE!
Thursday December 16, 2004 at 05:52 PM
by Critical Thinker Wednesday July 07, 2004 at 08:50 AM
nessie is an authoritarian who is most unpleasant to work with and had managed to eject most other members, who broke away and formed Indybay. Thus, he has succeeded in surrounding himself with a small bunch of weak yesmen technocrats. He's the only person who has any journalist credentials in his collective, however flimsy.
He would and has banned some people from SF-IMC for spamming, yet he finds no problem to spam other IMCs. Sometimes I wish other edirtors weren't more tolerant to spam than he.
Furthermore, nessie has defined racism as per his whims and banned any person who had made comments even remotely defensive of any Israeli action or policy.
I think the nessie problem is a grave symptom of a malady that afflicts Indymedia as a whole. They can't revoke his editorial privileges since, and their inability symbolizes, in my opinion, the problem of Indys credibility as a whole in the eyes of the general public.
EVERY WORD HERE IS A MATTER OF RECORD!
want some love in your life?
by Nessie
Wednesday January 05, 2005 at 07:25 PM
but please no fattie's
nessie_-_rocks.jpg, image/jpeg, 168x473
I am looking for a great looking chick to have a fling with. you must live near the San Francisco area. or be willing to spend the money on gas to commute to my place. you must dress up nice and have great hair.
I respect girls who take care of their bodies. and be ready for the time of your life!
www.sfimc.org
what a boodie!
by Rhea Green
Monday January 10, 2005 at 08:33 AM
Ya!
shake it big boy!
I am up at ef in the headlands for a while how about you come out to my tree sit and we can rock the forrest!
keep it all natural babe!
toodles Rhea
He makes my Palestinian Juices flow
by What a hunk
Wednesday January 12, 2005 at 04:15 AM
Get in line Rhea, I have first dibs on that hunky anti-semite!!
s/f imc expanding service
by repost
Wednesday January 12, 2005 at 05:31 PM
Nessie now runs a new web Page.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fun-With-Midgets
is presented as a public service
-nessie
groups.yahoo.com/group/Fun-With-Midgets
REQUEST FOR ASSISTANCE
by from the office of pointer
Saturday February 12, 2005 at 07:06 PM
REQUEST FOR ASSISTANCE
Investment Offer from Martha Stewart
Investment Offer from Martha Stewart
REQUEST FOR ASSISTANCE
Hello, friend.
I must sincerely solicit your strictest confidence in this transaction. What I am about to divulge to you in this email is top secret and if it offends or does not meet with your business ethics, I crave your indulgence.
I am Martha Stewart, a member of a special committee set up by Martha Stewart Living Omnimedia, Inc. -- a business located in the United States of America. My committee is saddled with the task of periodically auditing investment accounts held by the corporation.
In the course of our work at the committee, we discovered many thousands of shares of stock in a corporation known as ImClone -- stock which has increased in value so rapidly that top government officials of the current presidential administration of George W. Bush might easily become suspicious and request that we sign the stock over to a governmental agency, such as the Limbaugh Foundation for Media Fairness and Accuracy. In countries such as mine, where the government often rules by brute force and military power, this is a common occurrence. Consequently, we have a desperate need to sell this valuable stock and divest US$30 Million as soon as possible
I have therefore been mandated as a matter of trust by my colleagues in the committee to look for an overseas partner to whom we can transfer the sum of US$30 Million. We are hoping to legally transfer the entitlement to you/your company. This is bearing in mind that United States law forbids its citizens from owning foreign companies or keeping foreign bank accounts, with the exception of those within the presidential administration itself -- hence our pressing need for an overseas partner.
We have agreed that the funds will be shared after it has been paid into your chosen banking account. We have also agreed that our own share of the fund will be used to start an importation business in conjunction with you as it is illegal to bring cash into the U.S.A. In fact, the customs agents often strip-search travelers and look into their every orifice with flashlights. This is far from pleasant, I assure you.
All logistics are in place for the smooth conclusion of the transaction within ten days of commencement after receipt of the following information: Your full name, company name, address, company's details & activities, telephone & fax numbers. Also please send all of your credit card information and any sexual fantasies you may be incubating. This is merely a precaution, and after all, we are now business partners, no?
This information will enable us begin the process and file documents with the concerned ministries and agencies in favor of your company. It is pertinent to state here that this transaction is entirely based on trust, as the bank draft or certified check drawable on the John Wayne Bank of America is going to be made in your name.
In order to move forward quickly, please respond to me at the information you'll find below my signature so I can bring you into the complete picture of this pending project and provide more information as to its successful conclusion. At this point, I'm assuming you're no longer even reading this, so I can pretty much say any damn thing I want. Carrot Top must die. Go Yankees!
The best response, however, would be by telephone, so we can discuss fully all issues needed to complete this venture successfully and in good time. As we say in my country: Yadda, yadda.
I await your prompt and positive response to this business proposal. Hop to it, Sparky.
Thank you and God bless.
Yours faithfully,
Martha Stewart
P.S. TREAT AS URGENT AND CONFIDENTIAL.
---------------------------------------------------------
Martha Stewart
3271 Michacuhiba St.
Greenwich, CT 06830
Tel: 203-555-7734
Fax: 203-555-7731
Email: martha@savemarthastewart.com
"by Nessie Thursday January 06, 2005 at 03:25 AM"
by no it wasn't
Thursday March 03, 2005 at 01:58 AM
For more about forgeries on Indymedia, see:
http://www.sfimc.net/news/2002/12/1555696_comment.php#1692248
(snip)
Sometimes they take something that an anti-Zionist has written, subtly alter it’s meaning by changing a few words, and post it under the name of the original author.
(snip)
* * *
See also:
http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2005/01/1709327_comment.php
" -nessie"
by no it wasn't
Thursday March 03, 2005 at 02:09 AM
For more about forgeries on Indymedia, see:
http://www.sfimc.net/news/2002/12/1555696_comment.php#1692248
(snip)
Sometimes they take something that an anti-Zionist has written, subtly alter it’s meaning by changing a few words, and post it under the name of the original author.
(snip)
* * *
See also:
http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2005/01/1709327_comment.php
* * *
>Nessie now runs a new web Page.
The real nessie webpage is:
http://www.transbay.net/~nessie/
want some love in your life?
by Pleeezzzzzzzze
Friday March 18, 2005 at 06:22 PM
every one in IMC knows you beg for sex on the news group. to try to claim forgery is lame.
want some love in your life?
by Pleeezzzzzzzze
Friday March 18, 2005 at 06:36 PM
every one in IMC knows you beg for sex on the news group. to try to claim forgery is lame.
Nes, you where a blast
by Ronda
Friday March 18, 2005 at 07:10 PM
I had so much fun in the city I cannot believe we where out all night, you know so many cool places.
just wanted to say thanks for all the fun
I can't believe it either!
by nessie
Sunday March 20, 2005 at 09:50 AM
"I had so much fun in the city I cannot believe we where out all night, you know so many cool places"
I can't believe it either..imagine spending 14 hours at the 7-11
indy emdia = nazism
by don iarussi
Sunday March 27, 2005 at 09:29 AM
this does not surprise me, Utah indmedia and liberals are anti semitic . let by the jew hating, anti pledge, anti Catholic, anti semitic slc aclu
"by nessie Sunday March 20, 2005 at 05:50 PM"
by yet another forgery
Saturday April 09, 2005 at 02:28 AM
Once again they demonstrate how well they know that truth is not their friend. Once again they are putting words into my mouth. They do this a lot. It's just the kind of people they are, deeply and fundamentally dishonest. My signature can *only* be trusted on SF-IMC, and SFBG.
For more about forgeries on Indymedia, see:
http://www.sfimc.net/news/2002/12/1555696_comment.php#1692248
yet another lie
by PSEUDONYM forger
Saturday April 09, 2005 at 04:29 AM
"deeply and fundamentally dishonest"
nessie is comedy relief. What else can you surmise from a freak who lies about its editing of posts?
the truth is not nessies friend
by nessie, pathological liar
Wednesday April 13, 2005 at 05:07 PM
Answer the questions with a YES or NO and nothing else:
Did nessie write "Die like a Dog" originally with the phrase "amplifiering happiness reflectors" and post it on the SF indy where he has the ability to edit posts/threads?
Did nessie change it later?
Did nessie admit at the Vancouver indy that he changed it in order to "improve his work"?
Does nessie use the Google cache as a defense, knowing he can alter his posts at the SF indy?
Does nessie take people for fools?
Does nessie have a shred of credibility?
Nessie is suspected of editing!?!
by shocked, simply shocked
Sunday April 24, 2005 at 09:56 AM
That prooves it. He's a puppet of Satan for sure.
a great looking chick near SF?
by the REAL nessie
Saturday October 29, 2005 at 01:26 AM
http://www.sfimc.org
I am looking for a great looking chick to have a fling with. you must live near the San Francisco area. or be willing to spend the money on gas to commute to my place. you must dress up nice and have great hair.
I respect girls who take care of their bodies. and be ready for the time of your life!
Suicide Bombers for Peace
by Religion of Peace Alert
Saturday October 29, 2005 at 08:27 AM
ast Updated: Saturday, 29 October 2005, 08:32 GMT 09:32 UK
E-mail this to a friend Printable version
Three Indonesian girls beheaded
By Tim Johnston
BBC News, Jakarta
Three girls have been beheaded and another badly injured as they walked to a Christian school in Indonesia.
They were walking through a cocoa plantation near the city of Poso in central Sulawesi province when they were attacked.
This is an area that has a long history of religious violence between Muslims and Christians.
A government-brokered truce has only partially succeeded in reducing the number of incidents in recent years.
Police say the heads were found some distance from the bodies.
It is unclear what was behind the attack, but the girls attended a private Christian school and one of the heads was left outside a church leading to speculation that it might have had a religious motive.
Islamic state
Central Sulawesi and Poso in particular was the scene of bitter fighting between Muslims and Christians in 2001 and 2002.
Muslim gang members carry makeshift rifles as Christian homes burn in sectarian violence-wracked Poso, December 2001
Flashpoints: Sulawesi
More than 1,000 people were killed before a government-brokered truce.
Although the violence has been subdued, it has never gone away completely.
A bomb in May in the nearby town of Tentena, which is predominantly Christian, killed 22 people and injured over 30.
The fighting four years ago drew Islamic militants from all over Indonesia and many have never gone home.
Analysts say the militants have targeted central Sulawesi and believe that it could be turned into the foundation stone of an Islamic state.
The analysts have warned that the violence could resurface at any time.
the time of your life
by Ernesto
Saturday October 29, 2005 at 08:28 AM
It's a plus if you have children. Young children.
And bring dog food.
Sasha
by JR
Sunday October 30, 2005 at 11:08 PM
I think the general public does see you as nazis.
Here is a little exercise: go to stormfront.com and cut and paste the comments to Indymedia and see if you notice any difference.
Also Indymedia contains articles by Tomflocco.com
"Indymedia contains articles by Tomflocco.com"
by oh, really?
Monday October 31, 2005 at 09:49 AM
Not SF-IMC:
sf.indymedia.org/news/?keyword=Tomflocco.com&author=&comments=yes&display=&ye...
the clock is ticking
by make a shorter link
Monday October 31, 2005 at 10:16 AM
buh-bye_nessie.jpg, image/jpeg, 278x198
My time is short.
More empty threats
by pointer
Monday October 31, 2005 at 11:32 AM
Click here:
http://pittsburgh.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/21246_comment.php#21274
http://pittsburgh.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/21246_comment.php#21267
prove it
by prove it
Monday October 31, 2005 at 11:44 AM
Prove that it's empty, mental cripple. You don't know from what direction you'll be hit.
que sera sera
If it wasn't empty
by [yawn]
Monday October 31, 2005 at 12:28 PM
it would have been f2f.
would have been
by patience
Monday October 31, 2005 at 12:36 PM
"would have been"?
You're talking past tense, idiot bastard. Time goes only one way, unbeknownst to a mental cripple still living in the '60's.
Your time will come when we deem it's time. You're not in control now, asswipe. You never were, for that matter.
Now make sure you come back and make some stupid post about how tough you are. Find a picture of a gun on the web to post, if it'll make you feel better. I'm sure the cockroaches will cheer you. "Yeah, that nessie is bad! He's nationwide!!!!"
I'm home right now.
by what a wimp
Monday October 31, 2005 at 12:40 PM
Come on over. Or are you too lily livered?
lily
by nessie splatterer
Monday October 31, 2005 at 12:47 PM
I'm far from it. I enjoy tormenting a mental cripple.
(You will respond again, NAMBLA boy. You cannot help yourself).
face to face
by face to face
Thursday May 11, 2006 at 08:24 PM
nessie pretends he's such a badass, but he ain't got the balls to answer a simple question of how many names he needs on the indymedia. Instead he'd rather throw a tantrum and post "bot attack" because he was jilted in ireland.
Waaaaah!
Waaaaah!
by one trick pony
Friday May 12, 2006 at 08:28 AM
COINTELPRO
Send him your love
by tell him what you think
Monday May 22, 2006 at 04:40 PM
Bound Together Books ('The Anarchist Bookstore'). Address 1369 Haight Street (at Masonic) San Francisco, CA 94117 Voice (415) 431-8355
Palestinean Arabs ARE white
by the REAL nessie
Friday September 22, 2006 at 11:35 PM
Palestinean Arabs ARE white
I'm one of the editors and the chief censor at SF-IMC, where I am deeply resented by truth shouting by beaners, blacks and Jews
I happen to be in a position to specifically answer your question, the general public has come to consider Indymedia activists as a whole as Nazis.
What trouble with that! , many other Jewish users personally tolerate the Indymedia editors display toward Jewish propaganda featuring on their sites and you don't hear them whimpering about is do you?. That kind of racism is much more tolerated than other forms of bigotry, most notably the anti-Arab variety, at least on Indybay and SF-IMC But know that I have aided and abetted a statement by one of his Court Jews that Zionist Jews (or the Zionists) killed Jesus Christ. I generally censor only the rather blatant expressions of blacks and hispanics as well. so I am a racist to all which doesn't count
see this;
http://www.transbay.net/#824Enessie/">http://www.transgender.net/~nessie/
sf.indymedia.org
Petra
by Petra
Saturday September 23, 2006 at 08:26 AM
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The
anti-Muslim era sweeping our nation has jaundiced our senses to accept
what is clearly absurd. The response by these groups is totally
nonsensical. These students are innocent of terrorism. If anyone
thought they had something to do with anything directly or remotely
related to terrorism, those graduates would be with the rest of the
Muslims locked up and wondering why they can’t get a lawyer or see
their family.